 Piper Lehman |
Contest Finalists Jim, I wanted to ask if it would be possible for you to add your thoughts when choosing the winning photos in the photo contest. I sometimes have trouble seeing why a particular photo places second to another. I always agree that the winning entries are great photos, but I don't always see why certain winning shots take the higher prize over the other winning shots. Please understand that this is not about me or why I haven't placed in the contest. I understand why the winners have won as soon as I see them. I just think we could all benefit from knowing what you are thinking, and why, about each winning shot. I want to learn to apply this reasoning to my own work. Thanks! :^)
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BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke  Contact Jim Miotke Jim Miotke's Gallery |
Hi Piper, We get this question from time to time - you are not alone in wanting it. However, we do not have the resources to do this at this time.
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- Carolyn M. Fletcher Contact Carolyn M. Fletcher Carolyn M. Fletcher's Gallery |
I agree with Piper. How about this.What if you picked one of the winners each month and compared it to similar pictures ( say in the same category) and give us an idea what you are looking for. That would give us all an idea of the thought process you go through in picking winners.
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Gary D. Johnson |
"We do not have the resources to do this at this time" LAME! what kind of resources do you need to get involved in this manner with your "OWN" web site?? I would call this commitment! Jim... I have now come to believe that better photo dot com is more interested in two things... 1. selling high priced web sites! 2. selling these so called online lessons. If you don't buy a site or online course.. they have no interest in your uploads... And I also suspect that picking your photo for a finalist might be a "teaser" to get you to buy one of these sites... After seeing many images that make it into the finalist stage I have to ask my self who and what kind of judges they allow to pick these images. As well what kind of influence (judges) do thay have to and with the "web site establishment"... Look at some of these images... I have uploaded 3 images that have been published... Not one of these images has even been mentioned by these so called judges! Carolyn... You at least deserve an answere to your POINT! Gary D. Johnson
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Piper Lehman |
While I don't agree with Gary's assessment that BP and Jim have an agenda here, I do think the site and the idea of BP being a photo HELP site has taken a backseat to the online courses and mainly to the photo contest. There is no incentive to post a photo in the regular gallery for help with a technique or just a critique of your work. The only way to get people to comment on your image is to enter the contest. I suggest more thoughtful and informative articles by some of the instructors. My beefs: 1. The on-line courses are too expensive for what you get. 2. The contest prizes need to be updated. If you don't already have a member gallery or web site here, you probably don't post images regularly anyway. I think most everyone has already either purchased or won one or both of the above. 3. The site map needs an overhaul. Just my 1-1/2 cents.
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Gary D. Johnson |
Why have a bussiness if you don't have a business plan... Better yet, An Agenda! I would not have retired at age 35 with out a business plan or agenda. I agree with you on your other points piper.
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BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke Contact Jim Miotke Jim Miotke's Gallery |
Dear Gary, I understand how discouraging it can be to not be selected as a contest finalist. The fact of the matter is that a photo contest can be both a good and a bad thing. It can inspire photographers to keep shooting and improving but it can all-to-often discourage photographers. Having said that, let me set the record straight. You have made several insinuations in your previous comments and I would like to correct your assumptions here. I am not sure why you think we don't have a business plan. We do. Furthermore, in order to survive as a business, we of course need a form of income. All the same, the main reason BetterPhoto is here is not, as you suggest, to make money. The online courses and the Deluxe Web Sites - as well as all of the free aspects of BetterPhoto - have arisen to meet the needs and wants of our membership. Our primary interest is to help people become better photographers, and to help people enjoy the art of photography more. Additionally, we see a great value in providing a community of friends who share the same interest in photography. However, the costs of running this site are huge. It is a very active site and such activity costs a lot of money in terms of staffing, hosting fees, bandwidth, advertising, etc. There is no need to beat around the bush, without members who actively support the site, BetterPhoto and it's photo contest will cease to exist. Rest assured, the judges do NOT see information about the member when voting on images. To protect the judging and keep it 100% honest, we do not display the member's name, or whether they have a Deluxe Web Site or Member Gallery, or whether they have taken any courses here at BetterPhoto. This is also one reason why the judges tend to be less active in the Photo Discussions; if we were to join in before the judging was complete, we would know who shot each image. And we do not want to know. Our goal is to judge each image purely on its quality, uniqueness, and effectiveness - regardless of the photographer. [Part II to follow...]
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BetterPhotoJim.com - Jim Miotke Contact Jim Miotke Jim Miotke's Gallery |
[Part II...] Carolyn, I do appreciate your constructive idea. I have been trying to work out in my mind how I can offer a service like this. One thought is to offer a course on the subject, or to offer another kind of product where myself or another judge will critique your work every month over the course of a year, to help you improve your photography. Of course, to make ends meet, this would have to be a paid product. And this is where it becomes a difficult problem to solve. Long ago, we decided to keep the contest totally FREE, because we did not feel like it was right to charge for a contest. Also, we saw that contestants were much more likely to have high expectations about winning when they put their hard-earned cash into it. Therefore, we opted to simply see the contest as a non-income producing expense, a fun and free aspect of the site that members could enjoy and benefit from, without having to commit to it financially. So you can see why I have not introduced such a product yet. I do not want to taint the contest with anything that might make contestants feel they can "buy" their way into the winner's circle. I also appreciate your constructive feedback, Piper. I too would like to see the instructors write more articles and participate more on the site. And I would also like to see more contest prizes. If you have suggestions as to HOW to reach these goals, feel free to email me your ideas. When you mention our "site map", what do you mean? Are you referring to the fact that we do not HAVE a site map? At present, my #1 priority in regard to navigation is to improve the articles and to make them searchable. However, Piper, I disagree with your statement that the "helpful side" of BetterPhoto has taken a back seat to the commercial side and/or the photo contest. The free helpful articles, newsletters, Q&A, equipment reviews, buyer's guides, and photo contest are still extremely active and full of great information. We get plenty of positive feedback about the usefulness and helpfulness of these areas of BetterPhoto, as well as contributive community at BetterPhoto. I also have to disagree about the pricing of our courses. This online format is, bar none, the best way to learn photography. You not only get to work directly with the instructor, but you can do it from anywhere in the world, and you get personal critiques of each assignment. You are guided and motivated to go out shooting, and you get to learn first-hand what works and what doesn't work with each of your images. Compare these online courses to on-location workshops, where participants have to spend thousands of dollars on airfare, lodging, and other travel-related expenses, not to mention the price of the workshop. What's more, most on-location workshops only last for a few days and therefore do not offer enough time to get feedback on your work. If the leader is great and the workshop is done well, it can be fun but it will always be very expensive. On the other hand, our online courses are a terrific value. Now compare our classes to one-day lectures and seminars, where you go to a certain city to hear an instructor speak. These too can be fun but you get no interactivity. You do not "learn by doing". Instead you are expected to listen carefully, take vigorous notes, and apply what you learn to your own photography when you get home. This simply doesn't work very well. For example, I recently attended several such lectures, each costing a great deal of money. When I returned home, the weeks progressed and I gradually forgot much of what I learned. Again, such lectures can be entertaining and helpful, but our online courses offer a far more effective, interactive, and lasting form of education. I believe in BetterPhoto and the BetterPhoto community. I know that most members enjoy the contest and the other free aspects of the site. Most members are supportive and helpful both to us and to each other, understanding that the main mission here at BetterPhoto is to help us all become better photographers.
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